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| Blogs > rm_velvttouch > Me, Myself and I... |
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what? For those who think men should pay first Gail Prince, a dating coach and coauthor of the book, "Soul Dating to Soul Mating," thinks it's generally good advice that the person who pursues pays in the beginning. She notes, however, that the expectation that the man will pay first is still in force among large pockets of daters, particularly those in their 40s and beyond. The woman feels more comfortable and nurtured when the man pays on the first date, she noted, and the man often feels like it's his role. That squares with the findings of anthropologist Helen Fisher, author of "Anatomy of Love: The Natural History of Monogamy, Adultery and Divorce." "Throughout nature, males have provided food for females in exchange for sex," Fisher said. Primordially speaking, she argued, humans are hard-wired to understand that exchange system in our mating rituals. While you're choking on that, keep in mind Fisher is not suggesting that women should offer sex for dinner or that they never should pay on a date. Far from it. When a woman pays, that signals her interest and her power, and a man who lets himself be paid for signals his acceptance of the woman's interest and power. That can be an important part of getting to know each other. But if serious courtship is the goal, a man paying on a first or second date advances that goal more quickly. "At some point almost all women want to know the man is willing to pay," said Fisher. "They want to know what his intentions are," she said. *************************************** I was talking to a friend of mine a male friend that in the dating scene. One of his male friends told him that he is willing to take a woman to dinner once..lol I had a man tell me I got three dates before I had to put out..lol (he must agree with the anthropologist...about food for sex..lol) and I had another man who i went to coffee with advise me that "I could pay next time" Needless to say they didn't get very far... actually i never called or went out with either of them again. Now my friend who has no interest in me sexual he always pays. Why? because he feels that he should and you know what it is not that I am not capable of paying but i find that i have no interest in the men that don't have enough manners to pay when they take a woman out. I went out with a southerner once and it was definately an eye opener. He wouldn't let me pay, he wouldn't let me walk toward the street side, he was attentive but not overbearing. He made me feel protected and wanted almost to the point where i was uncomfortable because hey we are more used to being ignored..lol im away message I saw once said "women the only species where being ignored is attractive" but maybe we have just gotten used to that being the norm. I realise times are tight in this day especially in my age group with alimony and support but that doesn't mean that you can't pick a date within your means (coffee, ice cream, a drink. I once shared dinner with a date at the mall food court to the tune of $6 and it was a great date) Now the three date guy may be the norm for men out there and he was just more upfront about it because I often feel like i am paying for whatever i get from men with sex. How about dinner just for the sake of companionship? How about a hug for the sake of physical contact? How about spending time with me because I am an interesting human being? If you pay attention to a woman and treat her as a person you might be suprised what you get before the third date...lol Hey a guy i knew told me once he got blown more on the first date from women on vanilla sites like match then from on here.. i told him women on sex sites were smart enough to check out the goods before we bothered..lol FYI- my answers in the comments are almost as long as the post...lol thanks guys for "poking" the rest out of me...lol |
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2/9/2008 1:37 pm |
If a woman pays, I think she just wants me as a piece of meat. And I'm ok with that.  Actually, I'd feel uncomfortable letting the woman pay. Could go dutch tho. Oh hell, used the word "dutch"; showing my age again. Blogging: It is Cheaper Than Therapy !
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the poeple that you are talking to are obviously jerks or idiots you do what ever is comfortable when paying just because you go out doesn't mean he has to pay every tim or that you should put out every time or that if you don't put out after a certain # of dates that he won't call that's stupid you pay for the date if you iniate it and sometimes if you did'nt if that's what you want to do I guess tha's my 2 cents! oh my god did I pay for thatdoes that mean you owe me a role in the hay LOL have girl!!!
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Sounds like someone has taken the Leykis 101 course 
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If a woman pays, I think she just wants me as a piece of meat. And I'm ok with that. /:> Actually, I'd feel uncomfortable letting the woman pay. Could go dutch tho. Oh hell, used the word "dutch"; showing my age again. Why going Dutch is (often) dopey There are countless reasons some people think "going Dutch" is a perfect solution. But I'd argue there are very limited situations in which it makes sense. Baldrige thinks separate checks are a good idea on a blind date, where no one is the pursuer per se. Splitting the bill might also be understandable for those 20-somethings with one foot in college and one foot in a low-paying job. Beyond that, I think dividing up the cost is a practice best left to nights out with friends, colleagues and potential job contacts. A date is different because the goal is different. By taking each other out, you're literally taking care of each other, however symbolically. In my book, that goes a long way toward contributing to the sense that you're a couple, not just two separate bodies temporarily taking up the same space. Even if the date is a bust, paying or being paid for is just a more gracious act than tallying up costs at the end of an evening. It's a generous act, too. Generosity is sexy. This may seem old-fashioned, gentlemen, and I certainly can't speak for all women. But I'm inclined to think one of three things if a man makes a habit of splitting the bill and never offering to pay: he's not serious, he's cheap or he's not assertive enough. On the other hand, women who have a permanent aversion to picking up the check are not friends I'd be proud to have. "Realize it's give and take," Baldrige said. "It's not all take, take, take." *********************************************************** I don't see a problem with dutch in friendships male or female but for some reason it is different in dating or sexual relations. and as for women taking the check i am more likely to bring you a pie or a book that i think you will like then take you to dinner..lol and definately not cook it for you... maybe bake for you though..lol
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Sounds like someone has taken the Leykis 101 course
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Interesting perspective on dating. I liked your last sentence the most
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whether you pay or not is up to you. whether you 'put out' or not is up to you. that's not to say that an offer to do either is not appreciated. the one who issues the invitation should pay. who says that should always have to be the guy? a certain type of man will pay every time out of manners or upbringing and the ones that don't usually are lacking in other areas and i just dont want them..lol and as for splitting the check not in a romantic or sexual relationship no. with just friends yes even though most of my male friends won't let me pay even when i offer. i am more likely to bring you a pie or bake you something or bring you a present then take you out to dinner. it is more personal. it is more of a time investment. You don't have to agree with me and you certainly don't have to date me...lol
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Hmmmm... As a "southern boy"(From Texas), I totally understand and agree with the idea of paying for the date. As a gentleman, it's what you should do. The problem is that the reaction to that depends upon the woman and changes RADICALLY without much indication. Some women look at the idea of "being chivalrous" as a bad thing and react badly to holding doors and pushing in chairs. Some women want to be treated that way and others think it's a slap in the face. *grin* First dates are always fun with the mental gymnastics of trying to entertain and attract while trying to gauge how your efforts are being received. Personally, I tend to believe in chivalry and that way of treating women. Women are ladies unless proven differently. You pay for meals, you pull out chairs and you open doors for them. But I am kind of curious, I believe you were married before since you have a child. Did you at no time pay for a meal between you and your mate? I know my fiance has paid for dinners before when either she wanted to go out and I was broke or more recently when the money was in the shared account and she had the debit card. Hehehe... I like the idea of pie or something baked. *grin* What pies do you like to bake?
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Hmmmm... As a "southern boy"(From Texas), I totally understand and agree with the idea of paying for the date. As a gentleman, it's what you should do. The problem is that the reaction to that depends upon the woman and changes RADICALLY without much indication. Some women look at the idea of "being chivalrous" as a bad thing and react badly to holding doors and pushing in chairs. Some women want to be treated that way and others think it's a slap in the face. *grin* First dates are always fun with the mental gymnastics of trying to entertain and attract while trying to gauge how your efforts are being received. Personally, I tend to believe in chivalry and that way of treating women. Women are ladies unless proven differently. You pay for meals, you pull out chairs and you open doors for them. But I am kind of curious, I believe you were married before since you have a child. Did you at no time pay for a meal between you and your mate? I know my fiance has paid for dinners before when either she wanted to go out and I was broke or more recently when the money was in the shared account and she had the debit card. Hehehe... I like the idea of pie or something baked. *grin* What pies do you like to bake? and i am not saying that i have never paid for a meal with a man i was dating or sleeping with but that is really not the point... the point is the attitude that many men have in this day and age prepetuated by this Leykis idiot that 1. they are paying for sex and should pay as little as possible when one has really nothing to do with the other. 2. that they don't need to have manners or be gentlemen. and if that isn't who you are then fine be honest about it but then expect certain people to be turned off. and hey isn't that how life is but way too many people put on whatever personality they think will get them what they want at the moment (refer to cheaters in cheater vs swinger vs poly) and that is so wrong wrong wrong...lol and my specialty is biscotti which is a type of italian cookie...
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YAY for not marrying him! That can seriously complicate things. For both sides of the equation. Divorces can be SOOOO nasty. One of my friends is an asshole. I love him to death but he treats his wife like crap. Luckily for her, they are getting a divorce... But for whatever reasons they haven't been able to agree to terms of a seperation agreement and they have been living together with three children for the last year. MISERABLE! So hoping that the divorces finishes soon. Course, I'm a weirdo for being engaged and saying marriage complicates things. *grin* But, then again we've been living together for years and still can stand each other. *grin* And yeah, that is a horrible attitude. If you want to pay for sex, get a prostitute. It's simpler and faster and less likely to hurt someone in the long run. Being used for sex in a normal relationship tends to not be healthy for the mental health of the used. I've never understood the desire to put on another personality. Trying out different sides of yourself, fine. "Maybe lets try a little different kink tonight." or "You be a random stranger at the bar tonight and I'll meet you there." But if you aren't who you are then anything you build together(short term or long) is built on lies and very very wobbly. Course, alot of it is also from my dad who'd come back from the dead and beat the crap out of me if I ever mistreated a woman. Hehehehe... Hehehe... I bake and cook alot as well. I haven't made biscotti before. I do make cookies and pies and breads and other stuff as well. Although, I guess I cook more than I bake in all reality. Dinner and such. I do a mighty fine job if I do say so myself. *grin*
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I agree that in a courting, dating, romantic scenario, the man should pay far more often than not, and as a relationship grows, the lady should feel free to take her guy to lunch, dinner, whatever...a bit of level footing is certainly fair as a couple develops their relationship, if both come to the table with their own resources. The friends who also have the sex thing should probably have a different character. If the friendship is truly the primary relationship, sex or no sex, then I like the idea of letting the person who does the inviting pay, generally. If the man always pays and there's a sexual element, it seems like there might be a quid pro quo element that shouldn't be there for friends. With that said, at the start of things where there is an element of platonic courtship with sexual undertones, the guy paying is the way to go. It's only when the friendship has it's own footing separate from the sexual relationship that the financial playing field evens out a bit. For instance, one of my friends is a part time stripper, among other things probably more impressive, but less titillating. While we had done the private dance thing as we got to know each other, our friendship doesn't have a sexual element, per se. I've let her know I'm game if she ever is, but I not really her type...she was nice enough to introduce me to her roommate who I do have a sexual relationship with, so it's pretty cool. Both of them are insatiable Myspace survey junkies and I pick up a lot of tidbits that are quite handy. The friend I have the sexual relationship with was complaining about a broken printer in a survey in December so I had an easy choice for what to get her for Christmas...my non-sexual stripper friend was talking about being envious her full time job boss was going to see John Legend and how much she would love to see him, or something to that effect. I was in a position to snag a couple tickets for her, and as it turns out she is taking her roommate with her, so it's doubly nice. I FULLY expect those guys to take me to dinner sometime when I get back (I'd already taken them both out to dinner and a night at the club my friend used to dance when I was home on leave)...and am quite willing to goad them into it...actually, as they both like to cook I may impose on them to invite me to the house for a dinner and TV evening... As for the gift thing, I'm not a big spender by nature...while I'm deployed I make pretty decent money and it makes me happy to do nice things for people who are important to me while I can. My earnings back in the homestead are more modest and that kind of extravagence is not my normal mode. I guess part of my point is that with friends, the expectations have to be managed a bit differently, and the dynamics typical of a friendship have to trump some of those parts of the sexual aspect of the relationship. I should also mention that no one should ever have to "put out" sexually. The only thing that makes it worth doing in the first place is mutual interest and pleasure. If sex is a condition of spending time together, it certainly isn't friendship....
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I used to always pay and wouldn't accept any contribution from the woman. Now I will accept contributions from the woman only under certain circumstances. My last date for example was to the movies. My date offered to pay for her ticket. I paid for the tickets and let her pay for the popcorn and sodas.   
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