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Liv's question about God and Religion...
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Liv's question about God and Religion...  I saw the post earlier, and then later it had been deleted, and I had to wonder why. (Except anything by Liv is something sorta like jack the ripper being opposed to .) What Liv wrote I had heard in many a Bible class that I have been attending as an adult. And the Bible classes I attend, people are knowledgeable in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. And I've heard these sentiments expressed in Hebrew Bible class, Catholic Bible Class, and Episcopal Bible Class. So what he said was hardly new, revolutionary, nor anti-religion. Pick up the book AFTER AUSCHWITZ to see these questions examined with mature and critical thought. (And if Auschwitz--and the mindset that led to there--isn't an obscenity, I don't know what is. Naked bodies or naked doings rarely will come to that level of obscenity. Violation of any sort is an obscenity.) The story of Isaac (Gen 22) is generally regarded as one of the most brilliant stories in Hebrew. Fourteen verses to cover what is the soul of the religious experience. Poet Wilfred Owen, who died just before the armistice of the Great War in 1918, encapsulated the story of Abraham in a poem, "Parable of the Old Man with the Young." The opening two lines: "So Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went, And took the fire with him, and a knife." The Book of Job raises the same question Liv raised, but with considerably greater clarity and subtlety. By the end of the Book of Job, the Deity becomes just another Yahoo, no different from the other friends of Job. And in the end, the Deity in Job becomes no different than Hitler, Eichmann, et al... A priest--both male and female--is a fucking ASSHOLE as are the bishops ASSHOLES. The lot of them. They should be giving blow jobs with their mouths and not sermons. Having said that, the priest is the person called when tragedy occurs, when misery occurs. They do not have the answers. What they have is the gravitas to approach the questions with the seriousness, they deserve; the profundity they deserve because they are meeting profundity of grief inexplicable. [The Newtown Tragedy] Priests have discussed the topics that Liv has raised in the same way Liv has. So to them, these questions and debates are nothing new. The drunk has to invoke a Higher Power [= God/Transcendent Deity] for sobriety for salvation of their immortal soul. Let one of those drunks get in a car and kill someone, they will know what perdition means. And finally look closely at Marc Chagall's 1938 "White Crucifixion." I said--LOOK CLOSELY! Notice Isaac just above the cross to the left as you face the painting. Look at the flames just above the cross on the right as you face the painting. Those flames suggest the Nazi terror of the 1930s and what that would mean to the Jews of Nazi Germany. The painting was created just before Kristallnacht of November 10, 1938. Religion ain't for the faint hearted or thoughtless. Liv's questions were oafishly asked, but as old as humanity. To me, life works with God, but makes no sense without God. Recompense by a Supreme Deity in an afterlife is central to any act of Faith... 8/8/2013 7:55 pm |
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Liv's question has been deleted from Advice Line. Apparently challenges excessively...
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Hi, Stephen: I think to argue the existence of god, and what he or she or it may mean to the world is a pointless endeavor. One either has faith, or one does not. One either trusts in a divine plan, or one does not. I was raised catholic but was an agnostic from about 7 years old until I was confirmed and could finally escape from the church. To truly be a member of any religion, one must simply trust that their version of god is right, and that all will be explained at the end. I'm not that trusting, and the message is being delivered by men, who are shallow and corruptible. So, I simply try and do no harm and wait and see what's likely to happen in the next life, if such a thing exists. If there is no heaven or hell or next left, then I will have done as little harm as possible to my fellows on this world, which is as close as I can come to being in harmony with the forces of nature and man. Regards, 2Shy
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Yeah, Liv is sorta comedy writ large. He made a post on Advice Line about how the Abraham Story--about God demanding Abraham sacrifice his child Isaac--and Liv saw this as an indication of an abusive Deity. And I was going to ignore what he wrote, but then I thought he ought to hear that his sentiments are reflected in many Bible classes by sincere people of faith, so his conclusions were not as shocking or irreligious or blasphemous as might appear. What also interesting is that two people as separated in time and attitude--poet Wilfred Owen (191  and Jewish Painter Marc Chagall (193 saw essentially the same thing in the Isaac Story--a question not of God demanding sacrifice of Isaac, but a question of the profundity of what God demands. The Isaac story is far more central to Jewish thought than it is to Christian thought. The Jews recite the Isaac story along with the book of Lamentations on the Jewish feast of Tisha B'Av which commemorate destruction of the Jewish Temple in 586 bc and in 70 ad and the destruction of the European Jewish Community in the modern era. So Liv's comment was spot on, even if inelegantly or facetiously expressed.
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that should be Wilfred Owen--1918 and Marc Chagall--1938 Stupid AFFland replaces certain markings with smiley faces...
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